(From an Interview of Francis Marion Gibbons conducted by Daniel Bay Gibbons September 26, 2001 in Salt Lake City, Utah)
My Brothers and Sisters
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| The Children of Adeline Christensen and Andrew Smith Gibbons Taken at a final family reunion, April 1, 1961, before the death of Ruth Gibbons Elliott Standing: Andrew Smith Gibbons, Jr. and Francis Marion Gibbons Seated: LeVon Gibbons Thurber, Pauline Gibbons Clarke and Ruth Naomi Gibbons Elliott |
Andrew’s Education and Attempts to Pass the Bar
My brother Andrew had a scholarship to the University of Arizona. And he went down to Tucson, and perhaps got in with the wrong crowd and was very indifferent towards his schooling – wasn’t taking a real interest in it. That really hit my father, because he made such a sacrifice to get his education and here was an education handed to his son, who had good possibilities, good mentality. Here the education was handed to him and he frittered it away. And so that was always a point of conflict between my father and Andrew. Because of the natural sense of inferiority my brother had toward my father intellectually, this was the thing that really drove a wedge between them. I remember one interchange between them one morning. We all used to sleep up on this open porch in the Summertime so we could get every breath of air, and we’d have this oscillating fan that was on all night. Early one morning my father and my brother were having some kind of a conversation. And my father had apparently been very critical of Andrew because he wasn’t buckling down and wasn’t doing what my father thought he ought to do. I could tell my brother was really agitated when he left and went downstairs.
This relationship was further cankered by the fact that Andrew studied law for several years there in Phoenix after my father was a partner in Cunningham, Carson & Gibbons. They had a library in their suite of offices and Andrew would go down and study there in the suite. I think he failed two or three times taking the Bar. And so I think that really hit Andrew hard that he couldn’t cut the mustard. And in our eyes that added to the status of my father and all of his accomplishments scholastically and on the bench and practicing law.
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| Andrew Smith Gibbons, Jr. in about 1943 |
Andrew’s Later Success in Other Endeavors
Of course Andrew shouldn’t have felt that way because he was highly intelligent and did well professionally. He went with the telephone company and he absolutely excelled there. He went right up the ladder and he finally became kind of a spot shooter for them. He would handle matters before the legislature and he had an executive position, and did very well. But I think the fact that he did not become a lawyer just stuck to him like a burr. So that created somewhat of an estrangement between my brother and my Dad.
Andrew Takes Charge in Camp on Paradise Creek
Now, I’ve told you about this camping trip that we took together for two weeks. We went up on the Paradise Creek in the White Mountains, which was really a wonderful thing. When we went up there my brother really took charge. He’s the one that set up the camp. He’s the one that did all of the cooking. He just had that ability to do things like that. At night he would put a pot of beans cooking and bury them in the ashes and by morning the beans were cooked. And he would make sour dough biscuits. He’s the one who built this garage in the back of our house with this sleeping porch above it. He was a good carpenter. So he was handy with his hands. And he idolized my father. So it was a rather unfortunate situation that developed between Andrew and my father.
My Father’s Views on My Future Education
Because of Andrew’s experience in Tucson I think my father was converted to the idea that I shouldn’t go to the University. And I remember that one weekend I went down to Tucson with a friend Larry Anderson. He was a cheerleader at the high school and also was in the business college at the time I was there in Phoenix. So he had a brother in Tucson who had one of these – it would be similar to a Big Mac – McDonalds – although he had a franchise and he had his own shop. So Larry and I went down to Tucson one weekend and stayed with him. My mother told me later that when I went down, my father was really negative about it, and he made the comment, “He’ll go down there to the University and he’ll get the desire to go to the University like Andrew.” And he didn’t want me to go. So when I got back – I could tell when he was displeased, he was kind of withdrawn and negative. So he was very satisfied that I went to Business College and that was enough. (Laughter). So its interesting to see how a family turns out.
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| Four older siblings of Francis M. Gibbons in about 1920 Rear: Andrew and LeVon Front: Ruth and Pauline |
DBG: Tell me about your sisters.
My Sister LeVon Gibbons Thurber’s Interest in My Writing
FMG: LeVon, the oldest, was to me a very beautiful girl. She was always good to me. She, more than any other member of the family took a real interest in my writing. When I started writing and publishing I would always send her a copy. She’d read every book I wrote, and then she would critique it for me. She was very encouraging to me, more so than any other member of my family, including your mother. Now your mother’s been supportive, and I think that she may have read some of my books, but never with the intensity that my sister LeVon did.
LeVon’s Education and First Marriage
My sister LeVon was a good student and she attended the Northern Arizona State Teachers College in Flagstaff, which is now the Northern University of Arizona. She did very well there, and that’s where she met Bob Garlow, her first husband, who was the son of a newspaper man in Globe, Arizona. Bob Garlow was a spoiled kid. Bob Garlow was a brilliant guy. They fell in love and were married and it was a disaster from the beginning. They didn’t stay together very long. He never really took an interest in his son, Reed. They were soon divorced and Reed lived with us for a year in Phoenix while LeVon taught school in Concho. Then LeVon later got a master’s degree and she had a fine career as a teacher there in St. Johns. She was very well thought of. She did very well as a teacher. I think she was in the system for maybe thirty years and retired as one of the teachers in the St. Johns High School.
LeVon’s Divinity Candy
LeVon was a fine cook. Her speciality was divinity candy. I always loved to go visit her because she’d always make me a batch of divinity candy. So I had a very good relationship with LeVon.
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| The five children of Andy and Addie Gibbons Rear: Andrew, Jr. Middle: Ruth, Pauline and LeVon Front: Frank |
My One Conflict with LeVon Involving Her Son, Reed Thurber
There’s only one incident that ever arose between us. Thank the Lord that it was settled as it was. Her son Reed was a Bishop in Tucson. He came to General Conference and stayed with us. The Church, of course, paid his way and brought him up to Salt Lake for instruction. Saturday night of General Conference the University of Arizona was playing football at Utah. And Reed skipped the General Priesthood Meeting and went to that football game. I always looked upon him as a little brother. So I read the riot act to him. I said, “Reed. What are you doing? The Church has brought you up here to give you instruction as a Bishop and you skip the main Priesthood Meeting and go to a ball game!” I admit it, I was tough on him. And I felt that I was entitled to do that because he was staying in my home, he was like my little brother, and I was with the First Presidency at that time. I was really irked with him. Well, Reed blabbed to his wife, about how I had read the riot act to him, and his wife blabbed to LeVon (laughing), and she sent me really a scorching letter. I think it started out, “FRANK! WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE?” (Laughter). And that was just the beginning. I mean, she really took the hide off of me. So, fortunately I didn’t answer in kind. I wrote her just a little short letter. I said, “LeVon. I must tell you about this some time when we can sit down together and I can explain what happened.” That’s about all I said. She never responded to my answer. So after a while she cooled down and nothing ever came of it. But that’s the only time there was ever any real conflict between me and my sister LeVon.
DBG: Hang on one second here. [Tape change]
LeVon’s Happy Marriage to Ez Thurber
FMG: She later married Ez Thurber. They had dated as young people, so they had known each other for a long time. Ez Thurber was a good man. They had a very happy marriage. He adopted Reed, so he changed his name from Garlow to Thurber. Then LeVon bore two other children, Vance and Sue. So she bore three children. So that was my sister LeVon.
My Father’s Opinion of the Intellect of My Sister, Pauline Gibbons Clarke
My sister Pauline. I heard my father say once that of all of his children he felt that Pauline had more mentality than anybody else. Its interesting. That never affected me because I knew he was wrong. (Laughter) So Pauline was a very bright girl. She also went to Flagstaff. Then she went to a business college in Phoenix and was a very skilled secretary.
Pauline’s Marriage to Eddie Clarke
She married Eddie Clarke – Eston Clarke. He was not a member of the Church when they married. They lived there in Phoenix for many years. I remember I used to go to there little apartment quite often to have meals with them. They were very kind to me.
Hearing of My Father’s Accident and Seeing Him in the Hospital
When my father was hit by the car I’d been having my meals regularly with them because it had been arranged that I would eat with them all the while my parents were in Yuma. So Pauline called me in a very agitated state to say that Dad had been in this terrible accident. I went immediately to the hospital and saw him as they were working on him. Apparently he had suffered several broken ribs in addition to multiple fractures in his leg. The were working on him when I saw him. He obviously in great pain. In any event it was Pauline who called to tell me that my father had been struck by the car.
Incidental Relationship with Pauline
So my relationship with Pauline was only incidental. She was pretty much up and out of the house by the time I was conscious what was going on. So I was never really close to her as I grew up. And that, of course, applied to LeVon and Andrew. Ruth was the only child who really had any impact upon me as I was growing up in St. Johns. Later Pauline and Eddie moved to California and it was there Pauline bore her only child, Joe. Joe Clarke. He is their natural child. And then she adopted a child named Teddy. But in any event, Pauline and Eddy did well in Los Angeles. Eddy had his own station. They had a nice house in a nice neighborhood and did very well.
Visiting Pauline While I was in the Navy and Later at Stanford
When I was at Stanford we drove down through Los Angeles on our way to Yuma before we headed over to Phoenix and we stayed with Pauline and Eddy one night there and attended Church with them. Eddie later joined the Church and was a member of the Bishopric and did very well. When I was in the Navy Pauline and Eddy were living in the California city north of Los Angeles called Santa Maria and a time or two I hitchhiked up to Santa Maria to visit them and stayed with them and they were always very kind to me. So we visited off and on at different times.
Persuading Joe Clarke to Dedicate His Parents’ Graves
I was never really close to Pauline but I always loved her and admired her and she was really a wonderful person. I was privileged to speak at her funeral and at Eddy’s funeral. I went down to Los Angeles for that purpose. I was especially interested in Eddy’s funeral. He died first. Joe had never been active. Joe came up to BYU and he got into some trouble down there. Pauline called all agitated and so I went down and served as Joe’s attorney in one court proceeding down there. That was always a very difficult thing for Pauline to take. Joe finally straightened up and graduated and got a degree in Spanish. Joe is a fine linguist. Because of the large Mexican population in Los Angeles a guy who is bilingual is really in a strong position. And so Joe for years worked with a company that hired a lot of Mexicans, and because of his ability to communicate with them, why he was one of their key employees. He later married a Mexican girl. What I began to tell you was that, because of this background and the fact that Joe never filled a mission, and really was never gung ho in the Church, when his father died I was visiting with Joe and Pauline one night before the funeral, and I said to Joe, “Joe. Why don’t you dedicate your father’s grave?” He’s an Elder. And later Pauline said, “He’ll never do it.” But he did do it. And he was very pleased to do it. So Joe dedicated his father’s grave. He’s buried there in a lovely cemetery, kind of on the side of a hill with a lot of beautiful trees, and Pauline is buried right beside him. So when I went down for Pauline’s funeral later, why Joe dedicated Pauline’s grave. So he dedicated the graves of his parents. Unfortunately I’ve never had the occasion to be close to Joe. I’ve regretted that. I kind of think that if I’d have been near at hand I might have helped to bring him along. So that was Pauline, and as I say, my father thought she had more brain power than any of his children.
California Vacations with My Parents and Ruthie
Ruthie was just three years older than me and we were always very close, both in St. Johns and later in Phoenix. Ruthie went with me and our parents in 1937 on a vacation in Long Beach. It was the first time either of us had seen the ocean. We really had a wonderful time. We had an apartment not far from the beach. So there were the four of us. It was a lovely, lovely vacation for us. There was a midway there and of course swimming in the surf. It was really exciting. And then later, after she was married, in 1939, she joined us – (Laughing) she left her husband at home – and she went with us to the Worlds Fair in San Francisco. We spent one or two weeks up in the Bay area.
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| Ruth and Frank in about 1944 |
Birth of My Desire to Attend Stanford University
That’s where was born my desire to go to Stanford. One day while we were there we took a drive down the peninsula to Palo Alto. My father showed us around the campus and around Menlo Park. There’s a very pleasant odor down in that area. It comes from the foliage. And my father commented on the fact that he remembered it distinctly how he enjoyed being in that area when he was a young student down there. So we had a good time. We visited all of the pavilions of the worlds fair which was held on the island that they had built up there in the middle of the Bay. We had a great time.
Visit to My Father’s Birthplace in Glendale
Then, on the way home was the occasion when we stopped in Glendale and we went into the home there where my father was born. Unannounced we stopped at that home and my father said to the woman who answered, “I’m Andrew Gibbons. I was born in this house. Would you mind if I looked in the bedroom to see where I was born?” (Laughing). So we all went in and saw the place where my father was born.
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| Birthplace of Andrew Smith Gibbons in Glendale, Utah This house, no longer standing in 2020, was located on the west side of Highway 89 |
“How could a fine Irish girl like you be a Mormon?”
Well getting back to Ruthie. Ruthie was a bright girl. She graduated from the Phoenix Union High School. Then she trained as a nurse in the Catholic Hospital there in Phoenix. The St. Joseph’s Hospital. She became the president of the student body and was very much admired by the Sisters there. Because of the name “Gibbons”, which to many people is an Irish name, there was this one Sister who used to say to Ruthie, “How could a fine Irish girl like you be a Mormon?” (Laughing). But she had a good relationship there and the fact that she was the student body president would indicate the stature she had. So she became a registered nurse. She worked for the State of Arizona Department of Health. She was a health nurse and was moved to Yuma. That’s where she met Howard Elliott and she married him. He was not a member of the Church.
